Hi, Zeke. So, tell me a bit about who you are.
I’m Zeke Apollyon. I’m High Cardinal and co-founder of the Global Order of Satan. We’ve been an established practicing order for the better part of the last decade. I’d describe myself as a family guy and a humanitarian, but obviously not the typical sort. I have different beliefs about what constitutes a family, what those values are and our own personal influence on the world.
Now, I’m curious. What does constitute a family in your opinion?
My own opinions favour a non-prescriptive, intentional approach to family. As Satanists we are united by the rejection of conventionality as a superior paradigm, and by our experiences as outsiders. Often we feel like outsiders among our own blood relatives. Hell, that’s sometimes where it starts. So with the idea of satanic self-care, I place a premium on our ability as humans to make difficult decisions to support our own well being and that means creating dynamic reciprocal relationships with people who feed us and vice versa. I hope that answers your question.
I think, it does. As far as I know, your group used to be the U.K. chapter of The Satanic Temple. Is that correct?
That’s correct, yes.
What was the reason for you to say, it’s better to be independent?
We realised that, unfortunately, that what the US understands about global politics and European systems was insufficient. We needed to be free to, say, develop campaigns to fight religious intolerance like our campaign in Bavaria, without the myopic oversight of a culturally shuttered administration. We needed to be free from centralised bureaucracy and a culturally insulated executive team. At the same time there were loads of European potential chapters that had been led on for years as “Friends of” associations, and what we felt was that these people were raring to go and knew better than anyone else in Poughkeepsie or Wichita or Salem what was right for their country. So when we were thinking about leaving we were like: Hey, maybe you guys want to come with, and we offered them the infrastructure and support they had been asking for, but with all the free reign to do what they felt was right for their territory. TST was more interested in a captive fan base and couldn’t manage their own growth. We were lucky to have excellent people in place with exceptional skills and an understanding of how to create a movement that wasn’t based on a cult of personality. The change felt natural and very satanic.
That campaign in Bavaria, that you mentioned, what was that about?
Markus Söder, the prime minister of Bavaria issued an executive order that crucifixes be hung in publicly accessible government office buildings as a tacit statement that Islam was unwelcome in Bavaria. This is despite separation of church and state being enshrined in their legislative constitution. His excuse was that crucifixes weren’t religious symbols, only cultural ones. So we worked with the artist Daren Cullen who curated part of Banksy’s Dismaland and we sent over crucifixes that could only be hung upside down with stationery purported to be from Söder that read “it’s okay to hang these upside down because they’re cultural symbols, not religious ones.”
And The Satanic Temple was opposed to that?
They were. They opposed us taking any action they hadn’t officially cleared, which is unsatanic, first and foremost, and also despite their own tenets which say that the pursuit of justice is more important than the written word. It was pretty clear to us that we had ideological differences at that point.
And at that point you decided to leave TST behind and found your own group, the Global Order of Satan, which gave you the freedom to do what you want, without asking for permission.
Among other things, yes. What I’m most proud of is watching our GOS chapters thrive and do meaningful things in their own territories. I mean, Sweden has gone on to make Satanism a nationally recognised religion. And these were people kept in a bureaucratic holding pattern for years.
That sounds awesome.
It’s totally awesome. I am inspired every day by our congregation.
So, similar to TST, the GOS has different chapters, but mostly in Europe. In which way are you organized differently? How do you avoid the bureaucracy that made you leave TST?
We have an “open-sourced” Satanism approach to our beliefs. It isn’t for us to tell one what to believe, and we trust individuals within territories to have the best understanding of what’s right for them and their constituents and battles. But we’ll provide logos, infrastructure, and anything else anyone needs to start a local movement. We’re transparent, we put our money where our mouth is in terms of the very real pastoral care we show every member, and we aren’t a cult of personality. Nobody within our Order is free from scrutiny or untouchable. Accusations of impropriety are dealt with fairly and thoroughly by committee. We aren’t a top down delivery model. We are very much inclusive and are focussed as much on the community building aspect as the fight for autonomy. I think TST make a lot more work for themselves and burn a lot of people in the process, which is unfortunate because they could have been a real force for positive change instead of the squeaky hamster wheel of failure, controversy and hypocrisy they’ve become.
That sounds bitter. Was there any bad blood after the schism?
Oh, I hope that’s not what you’ve gotten from me! On the contrary, our separation was the best thing that ever happened to us. It made us who we are and allowed us to tackle national injustices we may not have been able to platform or fulfil as easily. I just meant that TST could have potentially done great things if they weren’t in the news for histrionics more than for good. But I think it’s fair to say that with any relationship there are growing pains and we had some. We never doubted ourselves though, or each other. We’re very lucky to have so much integrity within our order.
You’ve mentioned that, thanks to the effort of your chapter in Sweden, Satanism is now a nationally recognised religion there. What do you tell people, who say that Satanism is not a real religion?
Believe it or not, I’ve never had anyone say that before. I’d be tempted to tell them to attend one of our services as a guest if they wanted proof. But what I tell everyone is that ritual is a custom of comfort or a hallmark of change, and that our practice of those celebrations and our strong beliefs constitute a religion. On what basis do you imagine people might dispute the reality of satanic idealism as a religion?Do you think it’s because our social idealism can eclipse our ritual practice? At least to the casual observer?
Well, I’ve heard people make the argument that the lack of believe in the supernatural disqualified it as a religion.
Buddhism isn’t supernatural, but it’s a religion.
True.
Religion is just a devotion and let me tell you, Satanists are devoted.
At the opposite extreme, there are people who view Satanic rituals as evidence, that Satanism is actually devil worship. How would you explain the purpose of rituals in a nontheistic religion like Satanism?
Well, as I mentioned, I frequently say that even unsatanic lives are filled with daily ritual – having a cigarette with morning coffee is a ritual of comfort, looking both ways before crossing the street is a ritual in which you don’t get hit by a car or cyclist. Rituals can be affirmations, ceremonies of belonging, or performative when we have something that needs to be said out loud. A handful of years ago there were bans on donated blood products from men who have sex with men and sex workers despite research showing lower than average relative risk for those groups. So we did a bloodletting ritual where a pint of blood was drained from a member (that member was me), and the life saving blood product was disposed of by pouring the contents over my head. A few months later the restrictions were eased, so I always say: ritual works! We are atheists and don’t believe in the devil, but we use that imagery as inspiration to speak out against injustice and as self-made monsters who would destroy the systems that marginalise differences, hence the robes and masks, etc.
I believe it was Lilith Starr who said: “Activism is our form of worship.” Personally, I don’t like the word “worship,” but would you agree that activism is a form of religious practice for Satanists?
I agree with Lilith wholeheartedly. The thing about Satanism is that it demands action. It insists on it. It is part and parcel of our beliefs. The way we see it is that self-care isn’t just bubble baths and foot rubs. Self-care most of the time means doing the things that manage to pile up on the back burner that affect us the most in their incomplete state. The things we loathe to do and aren’t accountable to anyone but ourselves. And left to our own devices we may not make headway. Having a support team of like minded individuals with a communal work ethic and an unrelenting positive personal regard for one’s companions/co-members can go a long way to helping each of us make strides towards creating immense personal change. And when our needs are met we are able to give without fear or expectation to others. That’s the foundation of our Satanism. Some times we joke that it’s just edgy self-care.
So, what kind of activism does your congregation currently engage in? And do you have plans for future activities that you’d like to share?
There’s a group at the moment called Agenda Europe that uses populist issues to platform hate rhetoric and they’re actively working to roll back human rights, and they’re gaining traction. Our efforts right now are in creating public awareness campaigns because I don’t think a lot of people know that these groups are guided by the Vatican and funded by American conservative money. And they should know. We’re also doing a lot of community building; having retreats, tabling events, speaking at conferences, craft making. It’s been fun.
So, the future is bright for Satanism in Europe.
It’s very bright. We had a small push recently for people to declare as Satanists for the census and that’s due to come out. I’m excited to see how much Satanism has risen as a religion since our inception. In the first 2 years of our formation Satanism rose in the U.K. by 284%. Those statistics are available from the Office of National Statistics. And as an order, especially with the U.K. order, we have been in such a sweet spot with amazing members who are fearless and tireless and really care about each other and that’s what’s important to me. We’re getting loads done and enjoying the journey.
Awesome. Thank you so much for your time. I enjoyed this a lot and I wish you good luck with everything you’re doing.
Thanks. I enjoyed it, too. Hail Satan!
Hail Satan!
Satanic Europe 
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